The Legal Side of Self Storage with Scott Zucker

Self-storage law has changed dramatically over the past 40 years, and few people have witnessed that evolution like Scott Zucker. In this episode of No Vacancy, we sit down with one of the industry's most respected attorneys to discuss how self-storage has transformed from a niche real estate asset into one of the strongest sectors in commercial real estate. Scott shares the biggest legal changes he's seen, memorable court cases, common operator misconceptions, and practical advice on everything from rental agreements and limitation of value to lien sales and tenant disputes. Along the way, we also explore his remarkable career, the importance of leaving a legacy, and why education and industry collaboration continue to shape the future of self storage. Whether you're a new operator or a seasoned veteran, this episode is filled with stories, insights, and legal lessons you won't want to miss.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So I just started uh following this guy on social. Have you heard of this guy, Derek Cahill? It's he does um who is that? I think it I think his segments are called Fuck This House.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Yeah, I know Derek. He reminds me of you because he looks like you. I think I've sent you some of his stuff before, haven't I? He's a stand-up comedian.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

I had no idea he was a stand-up comedian, but he's pretty funny, especially when he's working on his house.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Yeah. Yeah, he reminds me of you a lot. Because I think you guys have like same facial features. And and you're both DIYers. Um I mean that you are DIYers. But yeah, he's great.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Yeah, he's really funny. I just started following him.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Yeah. He's he's uh I think a nationwide tour this uh this summer and fall. He'll be in Philly. Come on down.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Hey. Yeah, he just just popped up in the algo. So um is that weird? Cringe? He's cringing. God damn it, friend.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Today's guest is one of the most recognizable legal minds in self-storage. Scott Zucker is a founding partner of the Atlanta law firm Weissman Zucker, Euster, and Katz, and has been practicing law since 1987. For decades, he has represented self-storage owners and operators across the country on everything from lien sales and rental agreements to development, employment issues, tenant claims, and risk management. He serves as legal counsel to numerous state self-storage associations, has been a frequent speaker at national industry conferences, and is a partner in the self-storage legal network, providing legal guidance to operators nationwide. Scott is also the author of Legal Topics and Self-Storage, widely regarded as one of the industry's foundational legal reference guides, and has written extensively for Insight Self-Storage, SSA Magazine, Mini Storage Messenger, and numerous other industry publications.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

My wife calls her debit card her Debbie.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Just to fuck with me.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

Because she's only dropped- I mean, she's dropping one letter. Like this isn't even there's no time saving.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Debbie and I are going to lunch.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Yeah. Me and my friend Debbie. Debbie's picking up the tab.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

I gotta go use my Debbie. What does that mean? Have fun with Debbie. I'll be here. I don't know how I got to that, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

That's all good.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

That was a great open. Hey Scott! Welcome to Vacancy. The attorney's here. Now we can really talk about this. Scott. Attorney client privilege. Excellent. Thank you for joining us, sir. We're getting right into it. When you sneeze, after a certain number of sneezes, let's say you're having a tough day. Do you ever receive the tone when when someone has to go out of their way for like the third or fourth, God bless you?

SPEAKER_02 3:03

A reserve comment. I'm not sure who I'm representing in that question. Yourself. Oh, if if I if I'm the sneezer or the sneeze.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

The sneezer. If I'm the sneezer. Do you ever experience a tone from someone who feels like they're obligated to give you the God bless you, even though you really asked for it? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. The answer is yes. Okay.

unknown 3:35

All right.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

I got one yes from an attorney immediately. This is going to be a hell of a podcast. Hey, Scott, thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

I I don't know how you guys are doing this in the middle of a World Cup match. Like what who's watching TV and talking to me at the same time? And that match is going on in Atlanta, and I passed on tickets because of you guys. How about that?

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Well, we all have regrets every day.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Who is playing in Atlanta right now? It's Czechoslovakia and somebody. I'm working for 11th. Anyway, this is very cool, you guys. This is fun. You guys uh how many of these have you done now?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

This will be our 14th or 15th recorded, but we have 12 out currently. That's right. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Who's the instigator behind this? Andrew.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Yeah. All right. Wear it proudly. You're say you're welcome. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. We've talked to some really interesting people. And uh this is we I think June of last year was our first one, so we've been on about a once-a-month cadence, and here we are, whole year in. Having a good time.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Awesome. Well, I'm honored. It's our pleasure to have you. Thanks for making the time, Scott. Um so we want to get right into it. I I was listening to your TED talk from a number of years ago. Oh wow. And you mentioned your folks, and you gave a brief story that I'd like you to dive a little more into about how they met and their origin story. And I really want to know how your dad Stanley, how smooth of a cat is that guy for getting your mom to marry him within two weeks or how did that happen?

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Well, uh I I love to tell the story, and and if if you're really intrigued by that story, you will love my novel. So, you know, I've written three novels. So this last novel that's called Battle for Life was my my dad's. I mean, it's inspired on my dad. It's not it's not uh nonfiction, it's it's fiction, but it's based upon my dad's life. And I and I include that this story subtly in in the novel because I love the story. So my dad had just gotten discharged from after World War II after being sent to recover after this kamikaze attack in the Pacific. He he literally said he had shell shock, but he but he came back uh to stay with his parents in Brooklyn, in the apartment building in Brooklyn after the war. And my mother was visiting her grandparents who lived in the same apartment building in Brooklyn, and he literally met her on the stairwell, and ten days later they were married. And he actually had a date scheduled for the date they got married. Uh which I think was they're talking about smooth move. I mean, he the the guy had a backup plan. Backup plan for mom. Gotta admire. And they and they were married uh until my mom passed. They were married 44 years.

unknown 7:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Um so it's a love story, and it's so nice of you to to to bring that up. Yeah, you're getting me all emotional for this podcast. Jeez.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Yeah, uh that's what we try to do. Thank you. Um so you want to talk about my kids and my grandchildren now? No, I we'll get to that if things slow a little. But so speaking of emotions, and you got to me a little bit too, um, during that TED Talk, because you were talking about your folks and um that they left you too soon. Um, so we have a little bit of that in common. Um and just the idea that uh you came to talk about in the TED Talk, the legacy writing about um, you know, it made me think of my mom, and my kids are getting older now, and they didn't meet their grandmother. And oh, how I wish, you know, that that had happened. And I've got two 10-year-old girls, and I really would just like my mom to see how much her granddaughters are gonna start battling my wife, which would be a hoot for her, you know, that the hormones are raging uh and they're only 10 years old. So um, you know, that really rang true to me to be able to talk to the next generation, even if you're not there.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

So it's your responsibility to make sure your girls know about your mom. I I think everyone's life has a story and a and a value. I mean, life's short. I mean, we all know people that aren't here anymore that, you know, sometimes you go to their funerals and you learn about things about their life that you didn't know while they were alive, and it's like so sad to hear it at the end. Um so I mean, it you know, for you to be able to make sure you share those stories with your kids so they know who their grandmother was, and it's your job to make sure they know your stories so one day your great great-great grandchildren will know who you were. Because I think they may one day ask, like, you know, I mean, for all of us, I mean, do we really know the stories of our great-great-grandparents? I mean, wouldn't it be amazing to find a writing from them or a video these days or something? I mean, that that would that would just blow your mind.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

It would. It it absolutely would, but I was struck by the feeling of an overwhelming um responsibility to do this, and then how emotional that would be to put some of that on paper. Um, how you've I believe you've done that. Right. And how emotional is that, or does that continue to be, or was that at the time?

SPEAKER_02 9:48

It continues to be. I I mean I I write my topics are are uh based upon the number of decades. So I started with 40 things about turning 40 and 50 things about turning 50, 60 things about turning 60, and and and and onward and onward. So I do I do write them and continue to write them and and find emotion in that writing as you should, because these are emotional topics. I I if you caught from what I said in the TED talk, but there are things I talk about in terms of issues that um all of us you would think that our kids or or friends or family would would be interested in knowing, our perspective on issues like um work and and uh uh integrity and relationship with God, if any. I mean, just you know, just lay it out there um and don't feel as if it's selfish or egotistic to talk about because one day they're going to be curious and you'll have given them a gift by giving an answer.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. I mean, it's just beautiful, and I hope at some point we get to see that in a book. I'm sure it's very private, but uh you know, maybe you could curb that a little bit and release it to the masses like the other three uh fiction books. Oh, thank you. Um but it was lovely. So thank you for that. And uh you got me all misty-eyed.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Uh thanks for watching the TED Talk. It was it was a very meaningful and pivotal experience to participate in a TED program. Um the people that get to do it are are you are very fortunate and hopefully they they have an impact on the people that listen to it.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, the TED Talk, you were such a natural up there, and uh you do so many conferences, you're all over the country with the self-storage industry, supporting the self-storage industry, advocating for the self-storage industry. How long have you been doing these conferences and even before that? What was your what was your call? Was there a call to the self-storage industry? How did you start there? And then when did you start getting on stage?

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Well, there was a call to the self-storage industry. It was literally a uh and I tell this story uh recently. I was very fortunate that uh the Mini Storage Messenger did a full article on my story. Um they called it the rule of law. Just get just kick ass. They really did a great job. Um, but I, you know, I started out as a as a construction development lawyer. This goes back to 1987, so I've been practicing almost 40 years that was developing self-storage, and we successfully worked through the development and construction of the of the project, and the operator turned to me and literally said, Are there any rules that apply to operating a self-storage facility? And I said, I have no idea. So I'm gonna go look it up. And lo and behold, there was a statute that dealt with self-storage operation for the state of Georgia, and uh and was amazed by it and wrote about it. Um it got published in the Messenger magazine back in 1989. Uh the National Association saw the article, called me up and said, Would you like to speak at a conference? And it just steamrolled and you know the story continues. But um it goes with my whole whole philosophy from a from a law marketing service perspective of go out, get seen out, get asked out, which was to put myself out there in writing and speaking, and then have people hear me or or read it and go, well, this guy knows my industry or cares about my industry. I might call him to for help. And that sort of snowballed into becoming a self-storage legal guru. As some as some might say. By the way, that will be on my tombstone. You'll just see self-storage lawyer. He realizes self-storage lawyer. But it's a great industry. I mean, we we all know how lucky we are that that we're in an industry where the people are great, they work uh collaboratively. Um it's there's a mutual support of you know, the rising tide helps all boats. I mean, we really are an industry that wants to be good together. There's not backstabbing, there's not a lot of negative treatment of operators between operators, they're they're neighbors. Um they work together and they it and they they act supportively, which we're we're so fortunate to have. I have clients that you know I've I've now been friends with for 40 years. It's a it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Quick break. If you're not involved with your state self-storage association or the national SSA, you're missing out. From legislation and advocacy to education, networking, and industry best practices. These organizations help keep operators informed and ahead of the curve. Get involved. Your business and our industry will be stronger because of it. Now, back to no vacancy.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

A few years ago, Scott, I asked uh you I'm I know you know our owner Foy and uh her late husband, Ken. And a few years ago I asked her, I said, you know, forty plus fifty years ago, when you first started investing your time and energy in this, did you have any idea that it would become you know the darling of commercial real estate, the the the sector that it that it has become? Um so I'll ask you a similar question. When you when you first started, did you did you have any foresight that self-storage would get to where it is today and that it could become a a career specialty for you?

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Yeah, absolutely not. I mean, in in fact, my other partners, or at that point, I was a young associate and the partners in my office, and I said, Look, I I'm gonna really dig into the self-storage stuff. I I mean, I think it's a great independent real estate vertical. It's something that I can you know specialize in and really supportive. And they were like, you're crazy. I mean, self-storage back then was you know metal buildings put up temporarily to secure land for other use. It was a cash flow, it was a temporary cash flow play. You had those first generation properties that you know were just thrown up as temporary use. It was not until honestly, into the late 90s, you know, mid-2000s, I mean, uh almost two decades later, where you were you get this in institutional property, multi-story, uh you know, beautification type property, metro areas, residential areas. I mean, it no, I would never thought that. I I thought it was a great exploration into a small segment area that would would keep me busy and maybe offer a unique uh opportunity for my real estate practice, but gosh, no, because if I had known, I would have invested in public and QSmart and extra. You know, but I gotta tell you guys, I mean, seriously, when when we hit 2009, 2010, the Great Recession, um, I mean, I thought that was the end of self-storage. I I would have never bet that it would have survived it and continued to thrive in terms of the buildup and supply and demand for self-storage and the utilization of self-storage that we see now and continuing to climb. I mean, and and let me tell you, when COVID hit, I would have also written off this industry. So I'm gonna be George Costanza do the opposite of me whenever I say self-storage is dead, because it has a resurgence that continues, and I really do believe will continue to grow. If our demographic studies are correct in terms of the percentage of use, there's a still a long runway of self-storage use that's coming. And I'll say this last sort of piece of it is that we are still a hoarder society. Uh my wife and I right now we're doing a renovation of our part of our house, and we had to move stuff from one area of the house to the other so they could get to it. Uh just an accumulation of stuff. So what what did I do? What did I do? I read to the self-storage unit.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Of course. Of course. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Staying in that same vein, Scott, what have you seen over the years uh that's been the biggest change in the industry? I mean, I have my assumptions, but would love to hear what you see.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Well, well, there's there's a lot to that. I mean, uh, you know, the the the evolution of properties from this first generation to what I would even call fourth generation type property now. Um I mean, the the beauty of these buildings, the way that they are developed in areas to fit into the culture and scheme of neighborhoods is amazing to me. I mean, the the the design of a facility is so intriguing to me now. Sort of it can be very fun to build a self-storage facility or convert a self-storage facility in an existing area and make it mesh with the neighborhoods and the areas, which I think is just very cool. And maybe that ties in with the technology now because of the systems, the gate access systems, the Bluetooth locking systems, the security, enhanced camera systems, the remote operations, all are just such an amazing evolution of this type of industry. And I have to give the folks that are back at their offices creating these technologies so much credit because they've changed the operation of the business. But for me, the answer, I mean, for my little world, I'm not developing self-storage facilities. I'm sitting in my office trying to keep up with the legal issues, um, is the change in laws. And if you look at how the laws for the 50 states for self-storage have changed over the last 40 years, it's amazing. I mean, we've evolved with the world, you know, use of email, use of online lien sales, uh use of advertising through the internet, electronic contracting. I mean, all of those things that are now permitted by statute and most statutes have followed the changes in the world as well. And I gotta compliment the National Association and all these state associations that work so hard to keep up with the modernization of their state laws so that operators can meet the demands of their clients legally.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

I think I can speak for my friends here when I say that, you know, for the last decade plus that we've been listening to you give updates at all of the conferences, and honestly, even the states that we have no affiliation with, you know, it doesn't I I don't need to hear about Michigan, but I always think it's just so interesting when you give the the the legal update for the industry and you tell us about some of the pending legislation and other states. It gives us a some foresight to know what we may need to expect down the road, things that we can kind of proactively prevent for, which is great, but uh just always interesting to hear some of the wild things that you see. And we appreciate how much you share it with the industry and um and you know, make it entertaining, right? It's it's always fun.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

It is a lot can be kind of boring, but uh we we we try to make it interesting. I mean, some of the some of the cases that have come out over the years. Have been crazy. But again, it's good education for folks at the national conferences, at the state meetings to hear these stories, to learn from them, and make sure they don't make the same mistakes. So my philosophy has always been about trying to educate operators to avoid the risk of having their own problems at their facilities.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Yeah, well, that's I mean, that's where we learn all our best lessons from somebody's mistake, whether it be ours or someone else's. So in that same vein. You know, without keep the innocent innocent. Um strangest like tenant dispute that you've heard of that you can share with us uh tenant versus self-storage company. Tenant versus self-storage.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Um oh my gosh. They all go to the misplaced behavior of the tenant believing that this that when something goes bad, it's the operator's fault, even though it's the tenant that caused the problem. And I can think of honestly one case where a uh where a tenant uh this is a terrible story. No, it isn't cooking with this cooking meth. Seriously, cooking meth caused a fire, their unit was burned as well as adjacent units, but their unit was burned, their property was burned. And they sued the facility. This is pro se world, so the you know, the courts have really opened themselves up to the opportunity for tenants as individuals to bring their own actions. Literally, the the world of Judge Judy and pro se small claim representation is a phenomenon. Uh it and I'm gonna segue on, I'll come back to the story. But the evolution of AI to support individual legal rights and claims is just beginning to haunt us in the legal industry. And I'll come back to that. But if you ever see a complaint drafted by AI against a self-storage operator, it'll be a minimum of a hundred pages, a complaint. Whereas in the old days, it would be a handwritten one-page statement of claim. Now it is a uh an adventure into the odyssey if a plaintiff brings an individual tenant brings a claim. Anyway, this person was cooking meth, started a fire, burnt their unit, they sued the facility for negligence, claiming that the facility was somehow liable for not building I can't make this up, not building uh a fireproof self-storage facility as compared to what was argued to be a fire using fire-resistant materials, that it was not fireproof.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Man, this story's great. You have to take a quick break, but we'll get right back to it. The legal side of self-storage has changed dramatically over the years, from lien laws and auctions to tenant protections and compliance. If you have legal questions or want trusted guidance, reach out to Scott and the team at Weissman, Zucker, Euster, and Katz. Experienced counsel for an industry that's always evolving. Now, back to the show.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

So the the somewhere they had claimed that there was a representation that the building was fireproof. And therefore they rented upon the improper misrepresentation that the building was fireproof, which probably is why they were cooking meth in the in the space, and then caused the fire and sued the facility claiming misrepresentation and negligence for the loss of their goods. Uh I will tell you that case lasted longer than it should have, but ended abruptly one morning when the judge heard the story and said, Not so nicely, get the hell out of my court. This case is dismissed. Well, first I thought he was talking to me, but I was glad to know. Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

Not again. Yeah, not again. Was there ever an unexpected court outcome where things went awry, where you did not expect to hear the judge's decision the way it went, and what happened there?

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Well, in the more formal courts where uh it requires full briefing and clarification to the court about the independent roles of the tenant and the landlord, we've seen some odd decisions, but not crazy against operators that may have had some liability associated with a uh a loss or damage type of claim. Um it is in self-storage uh small claims that we've seen judges who are sympathetic to the tenants as plaintiffs, and notwithstanding the law, say, you know what, you guys might be right, but I'm gonna give these people money anyway because you're a business and I know you have money or insurance, and I'm gonna give them money. And it becomes an issue of the cost-benefit analysis of appealing those decisions as to whether just to pay those judgments. So uh we've seen definitely, I I never tell an operator when I go into court that that you're always gonna win, even if you have the best rental agreement ever. Might even be the rental agreement I wrote, and you cannot guarantee the win because you just may have a judge that says, you know what, I'm just gonna be a nice guy today and uh enter an order for the tenant for the for the operator to pay them some money.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Scott, has there been a court case uh that you can remember um that's been kind of the biggest lesson for you where you came out of it um just yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Um I wasn't involved in this case, but I I will always frame back to the Gonzales case out of Texas from the the uh early 90s, where a self-storage operator, sort of interesting, said sad story, a self-storage operator advertised a unit for sale, a lien sale, Mrs. Gonzalez, unit A101, you know, household goods, furniture, whatever, as listed and publicly uh notified pursuant to the to the law. And uh a person showed up, said, Oh, I'm Mrs. Gonzalez, I saw my unit's up for sale. Um, I'm gonna pay you and I'm gonna take my property out. And the manager said, Okay, Mrs. Gonzalez, you know, you're in Unit 101 as advertised. I'm gonna we've already cut the lock because we had to do the the the inventory for it, so it's our lock. We'll take our lock off. Here, get your stuff out. Thanks for the money, you know, 500 bucks, have your stuff. And that lady came, packed up the stuff, and left. Um, the next day, the real Mrs. Gonzalez came in to collect her property. And the manager are like, well, there was a lady here who said she was Mrs. Gonzalez. Well, did you ever check her ID? Do you know, can you I did you identify who she was? And it's like, no, she said she was Mrs. Gonzalez. We don't go through any proof process here. And to me, that was a big lesson in knowing who your tenants are, especially in the world of self-storage. So I, you know, we went through years where, you know, you'd have the little camera on the desk taking a picture of the tenant, or you definitely would take a photocopy of the driver's license so you'd have a physical description and a picture of your tenant. And it was really important to me as a sort of lessons learned. Know who your tenants are so you can always feel comfortable that you're dealing with the tenant, especially in a lien situation. Unfortunately, with mobile applications and online uh contracting, we've moved away from that. And sometimes it's more of a hassle to get a copy of the driver's license. But I you know, I really urge uh operators to verify their tenants, especially in a lien collection situation. I mean, this whole issue about self-storage, they don't live there, they just store their property there. So managers may not know, and look, we may not even have managers at a site anymore with unmanned properties. But the underlying responsibility of knowing who your tenants are, especially when there's an effort to reclaim property, is still key and a memory from that case. And that case, though true Mrs. Gonzalez, uh was uh awarded in the millions for the loss of her property, which led secondarily to the question: can we limit the value of the property that's being stored at self-storage? And that triggered the whole movement towards the contractual limitation of value, the declared limitation of value. And then subsequently, over the past 20 years, the statutory approval that a self-storage operator who chooses to limit the value of the property stored can rely on that limitation if a tenant claims loss or damage to their goods. So all these came from some bad stories and lessons learned to move to contract rights and to statutory protections.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

Just a quick follow-up to that. Do you think the limitation of value at 5,000, I think that's where it usually is, do you think that should be lowered? Or do you think that kind of works against people selling insurance and other types of things?

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Aaron Powell I think it's a number that that fits within sort of the industry standard of a reasonable value of the property being stored, um, but there's always, always the right of the tenant to seek to increase the value based upon their request. So we have situations where operators are at the ready, the tenant sees that says, well, I believe my stuff has more than $5,000, and you're able by addendum to increase the value as long as the tenant can demonstrate that they have insurance or protection for the higher value. They they they always assume the risk of loss that is protected by a third party or protection program to balance that risk. So the $5,000's been used, I've seen it higher in certain areas. New York City was uh well known for a $7,500. There's a case out there for $7,500 limitation of value. Uh there's there's a case in Nebraska for $2,000 of limitation of value. So, you know, it depends. It depends. But it always gives the this is important. It always gives the tenant the opportunity to request a higher value if they uh uh see fit to do so. And it also gives the landlord the opportunity to go, you know what? I don't feel comfortable with giving you that uh that increased value. I'd rather you go somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

All right. So uh Scott, we have to do that.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

I like your other background better, Brian, but that's a whole different story. He just moved. Literally while you transported yourself.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

My internet connection just wonked out and said, nope, no more fun, no more fun fake studio. Um so we have a we have a small segment queued up here that we we're calling uh self-storage legal mythbusters. And so um I'm sure you'll have more to say about these, but true or false. All right, and we'll just fire a few scenarios at you. True or false, Scott, if it's in my lease, it's enforceable.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Do you want me to explain or just just straight on the street?

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. I I I it says rapid fire, but I know that that we're not.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Well we we can do we can do rapid fire. I'll come back to it, but but the presumption of enforceability, the presumption of prevailing based solely on a contract is not the way that the law works. It's gonna work uh a strong percentage of the time, but you said it as a very sort of yes or no, and I can't say yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Go ahead. Next. This is uh perfect because we were just talking about it. True or false. I can always rely on the limitation of value provision. False. Judges can do what they want to do, but I'd rather you have one than don't have one. True or false. A signed waiver protects me from liability.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Again, I'd rather have one than not have one, but not always.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

I told you the only yes we were gonna get out of him was when he hears the tone when somebody has to say God bless you a third time. That's the only yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Scott, true or false? A tenant abandoning a unit means I can immediately take possession.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

If the abandonment's in writing. A verbal abandonment, so-called, I don't I don't care about my stuff anymore, or what I like to call to the tenant to the landlord go to hell comment, is not a abandonment. An abandonment must be in writing.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

What if they said, go to hell and bring all my shit with you?

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Well, I know that's gonna be blanked out by FCC rules, but uh uh still no. All right. Now wait, I want to caveat that. This is interesting. Uh we because we've had this come up. If they call the call center, and the call center is a recorded call as approved by both parties, as you know, this call will be monitored for for you know uh service, best service provided, uh, and they provide that abandonment in a recorded call, I would feel comfortable with that.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Last one. True or false? Electronic leases create more legal risk than paper leases. This is so unfair.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Uh I'm an old school guy. Do I love the fact that in the old days the tenant stood in front of the manager at the desk and signed a lease with a pen, and we had the original signature, and the tenant knew the manager, and the manager knew the tenant, and you had your yellow and white and pink copies, and everything was beautiful. Uh yeah, I like that. Are electronic signatures enforceable? Absolutely, yes. We have federal and state electronic signature laws. Um, I these days with certain companies, you can track the IP address uh and the location where the contract was executed in case there's any challenge. But I also know that there's a reality that tenants can and will try to challenge the lease when it's an electronic signature and argue that it was not them or it was not their signature. So, you know, has has it made our lives easier? Yes. Has it made our lives harder in certain instances? Yes. Did I love the uh, you know, look in the old days, sign and blood here with a with a seal in with with wax over the signature? I that would make my life so much better. But, you know. Gosh, I I didn't give you a straight answer to any of those. What a lawyer.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Gosh, what a lawyer. So we've got a question from folks who I guess were too frightened to ask you and Carlos in San Antonio. I'm gonna let you try to decipher this one, Scott. I don't know if it's really English, but what's his opinion on having an overdue tenant sign a new rental agreement if we take a partial payment?

SPEAKER_02 38:14

Well, uh a new rental agreement is completely unnecessary. Uh you could always accept a partial payment if you chose to do it. The contracts that I write do not provide for they they provide that you could take a partial payment. I mean, because sometimes people pay it and somehow in the system you accept it, but only full payment would stop a sale. Now, an operator always has the right, you know, because tenants do have their stories, um, and everyone has their own life events. So you may have a tenant tell a story that the operator says, Well, I'll take a partial payment and I won't sell your stuff. But contractually, you could take a partial payment and still sell the stuff because they have not fulfilled their debt obligation. Um But let's say you take a partial payment, don't sell it, and continue on to the next month, expecting the tenant to cure the balance and pay the next month, which is optimistic. You don't need a new lease agreement to do that. It's just a continuing default, and maybe you schedule the lien for the next time. But no burden of creating a new lease. It's the same uh contractual relationship. It's just a monetary calculation of what's owed and not owed at that point.

SPEAKER_03 39:30

Yeah. Yeah, that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

I have a um sorry, real quick, Chris. Uh we we had uh this is kind of a joke, one, but we had Jesse Lamb on um fairly recently, and she has a chicken unit story, and it came up. I mean, she had what was it, hundreds of chickens in a unit that she had just found out about. Yeah, this has been rectified. I mean, it's not it's not present tense.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

This is hatch.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Are we talking like a yeah, a hatchery, like the like they're making eggs in this unit? Or or this is where they got rid of the chickens? Like what's going on here? They were alive. I believe they were lit.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

She heard clucking. It was all clucking. So yeah, they were alive.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

It wasn't a butcher shop yet or anything. So she took care of it in the correct way. My question was had the tenant been late on payments and this had to go to auction. How does that how does that work?

SPEAKER_02 40:27

I think that I think that you know these are the and these are great sort of stories because they're they there are the many one-offs of self-storage, what's found in a unit for the purpose of a lien sale. I would not sell a unit full of chickens. I would contact probably the Department of Agriculture to handle the proper way of turning over live chickens for proper management by the Department of Agriculture. Same way that if I opened up a unit and found uh a significant amount of pharmaceuticals, you can't sell the drugs. Um you would contact the uh DEA and uh they would help you properly dispose of it. You may contact the pharmaceutical company and they could reclaim the property and properly dispose of it. Uh same is true with alcohol, same was true with guns. I mean, there's certain things you're not gonna sell. You open a meth lab, you're not gonna start taking over business. I mean, there's a certain amount of things you just aren't gonna sell. Uh and you're gonna have to you're gonna have to red flag those and handle those uniquely and separately.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Well, you heard it here first. Uh, you guys want to go right to the lightning round? Sure. All right. Okay, Scott, here we go. Um we know you're a dog lover. Favorite breed of dog? Labradoodle. Wow. Very nice. Very nice. How many do you have?

SPEAKER_02 41:49

Uh we we had two. Uh after 14 and a half years, we just lost our little Fenway. Since I'm from Massachusetts, we named that for Fenway Park. Uh, 14 and a half years had she had a very good run. And all that's left to us now, since my wife's from Houston, is our dog Astro.

unknown 42:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

I'm very sorry.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

Sorry for your loss. Great name. Uh great names. Great names. All right. So you're from New England. You've lived in St. Louis, D.C., Atlanta. Your wife is uh from Houston. What's your favorite American city to visit? Boston. It's a great city.

unknown 42:24

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Totally great. What's your favorite morning beverage of choice? Coffee. Anything else? A little cream.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

Coffee, a little cream. That's a favorite. That's a necessary beverage in the morning. Doesn't even matter if you like it. Just have to have it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:42

Um, if you were expecting me to say vodka, that would have been a whole different conversation. We're not we're not interviewing Carlos here today. We're interviewing Scott. Come on. Um what was your first concert and most recent concert you attended?

SPEAKER_02 43:00

Holy cow. Um well, we're about to see our most recent one, but we're we're uh two weeks away from seeing Paul Simon in Atlanta. I'm an old school music guy. I this is actually a claim to fame. Um I sang backup with Barry Manilo in 1983. My choir from college, uh, he was doing the one voice tour, and I and I was with my uh college choir, and we sang backup to Barry Manilo, who's still my favorite artist ever. Uh my first concert, however, uh was Chicago.

SPEAKER_03 43:35

Excellent. Awesome. Were they known as Chicago back then or the Chicago Transit Authority? I think Chicago Transit Authority. Great. Trivia question. Great. Thank you. Yes. Um what's uh most recent concert?

SPEAKER_02 43:48

I want to say Elma Live. Um I I might be too embarrassed to admit to that one. Um well the last concert was the SSA concert with uh with Goodyear. There is sure. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 44:06

Nice. Um any favorite Paul Simon song that you're hoping that he sings? Uh Bridge Over Troubled Water. Yeah. I I think you got a pretty good chat at that one. I hope so. Um You really dropped that Barry Manolo bomb, and I can't let it go. So college, Washington University of St. Louis. Okay, so you're in the choir.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

Um What's your favorite song to sing in the car by yourself? By myself. Jeez.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

Um it it's gonna be a Manilow song. I mean, it's either a Manilow song or a Frank Sinatra song, but the Sinatra songs go back to my dad who used to sing Sinatra songs all day. Uh I mean, obviously my my favorite Sinatra is My Way. That comes on the radio, I sing it. Um, you know, um uh but probably um probably Copa Cabana.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

So that's gotta I mean you guys don't have a lead-in song at the yes at the power hour. Uh from now on, you got to be.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

I don't think Carlos and I could probably decide on a song because he'd he'd probably do some sort of like I I I don't even know what he would be thinking about in terms of rock and roll back from the from the 60s for uh uh you know some Janice Joplin song or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

A little Barry every once in a while.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Yeah, you could you could you could do my opening to uh to a Barry song anytime.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

All right. All right. This has been really fun. Thank you, Scott. So much for your time. We'll be Scott. Thanks, Scott. Thanks very much, man. Have a great summer.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Scott Zucker. Always uh always a breath of fresh air. Fantastic. He has probably forgotten more than most people will ever know of self-storage.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

I was gonna ask him to sing, but I didn't know how awkward it was gonna get. Well, I don't know about the licensing stuff, but I mean if we could play him out with Coba Cabana at the end of this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Thanks for tuning in. If you like what you heard, you can listen to No Vacancy wherever you stream your podcasts.